Mon 7 Jun 2010
Guest Commentary: Tim Myers wades in again without all the facts
Posted by admin under Guest Commentary , HOA , Opinion , Santa Clarita Valley , Sports [132] Comments
I read in the Sunday, June 6, 2010 (D-Day) edition of The Signal, Tim Myer’s incredulous opinion column, “If I get old and grumpy, take me to the Soylent Green factory”, and I promptly noted numerous inaccuracies and assumptions. Old grumpy brother Tim must have had very little material this week. In the future Tim, try reaching out for truth before hammering your keys. I sought a meeting with you last week, but alas you just did not take the time. Was it easier to assume a good one sided story, was it pure laziness, or is there another agenda?
Since you used my name, you could have at least given me the respect of hearing the other side of the story; apparently that is not your agenda, hence you have deemed yourself ready for the Soylent Green Factory. Tim Myers would have you believe that this argument resides between loving families who want nothing but the best for their kids and a band of crotchety old grumpy people who hate kids having fun, when in fact it’s sensible adults who placed their energy, resources and reputations on the line making responsible decisions for the benefit of our entire Summit community. As a good friend of mine stated, this entire issue is a microcosm of our national political arena.
If Tim Myers had been present at our Summit HOA board meeting in January 2009 he would have heard my comments regarding the Summit Seal’s annual contract. My concerns were simply that our governing documents (CC&R’s and Pool Use Rules) prohibited much of the swim team activity, plus I felt it was inappropriate for the swim team to have a free clubhouse use whereas all other homeowners must pay rental fees.
It should be noted that board members assume a great deal of fiduciary responsibility; therefore I simply could not rubber stamp the board president’s decision. That particular board meeting was my second board meeting that I had ever attended as a board member and so I carefully studied our documents in preparation.
Until that time, I rarely attended board meetings. I recall that Cam Noltemeyer was firmly concerned about safety and liability. Shortly thereafter, pro swim team board members and pro swim team sympathizers ousted Cam from our board claiming she was an “obstructionist”. It’s a fact that when Summit homeowners voice their concerns about swim team activity, they are immediately demonized, lied about, and personally attacked even going so far as making false accusations to employers and law enforcement. Tim Myers, a useful special interest pawn, created a “one sided” column attacking my reputation and character right in line with those tactics that have existed here for years.
During that January Board meeting, I asked that the board take more time to match swim team activities to our governing documents; after all, their activities would not begin until May. I was stunned at the blow back from two of our board members; you would have thought I had assaulted Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. Swim team sympathizers who had crowded into our clubhouse that evening screamed and yelled at both Cam and myself; there we were as volunteer board members and we were denigrated and shouted down for voicing our concerns. At one board meeting, a pro swim team mother stood up and yelled, you old people should move to retirement homes. One man yelled at me claiming I had no honor; as a combat Veteran and Purple Heart recipient that was hard to take. But I kept my mouth shut. In the end, a vote was forced and the Board approved the swim team contract three to two which resulted in children diving into the shallow end of our pool for yet another season.
This year, after much haggling, it appears that the swim team is well on its way again with free use of the clubhouse and most of its usual activities. However, if you read the blogs it appears that the swim team has agreed to cease allowing children to dive into the shallow end of our pool, they’ve stopped various dubious events and they have possibly corrected their historically inadequate insurance coverage.
If these changes are indeed true, then much credit goes to the Stratford HOA because if they had not stepped up, it would be business as usual, meaning our HOA would endure yet another year with unnecessary and excessively high liability with children diving into the shallow end of our pool.
Based on my observations, the behavior of pro swim team board members and many pro swim team activists forced the Stratford board to pursue a legal course to resolve these critical matters. That special interest swim team group, including certain board members, adopted an entitlement mentality some years ago and they have not concerned themselves with conducting any level of rational conversation towards resolution, which is why I finally resigned from the board in protest.
In fact, following a signed agreement by the Summit board that stated swim team activities would not proceed while the two boards’ negotiated resolution, the Summit board immediately violated that agreement and approved a new swim team contract.
Additionally, the Summit pro swim team board members recently changed our clubhouse rental policy and our “No Diving” policy strictly favoring the swim team. They have shown that there are no bounds to their limits of providing entitlements for the swim team to the encumbrance of our community at large. Entitlements beget dissension.
In closing, I strongly believe that the Stratford HOA was forced to take action and for that I thank them for reducing our HOA’s liability and greatly reducing the risk of injury to swim team children. Furthermore, it’s now abundantly clear that Cam Noltemeyer’s concerns have been vindicated.
William L. Reynolds- Guest Commentary
William L. Reynolds is a community volunteer who has served on the Summit HOA board. His commentaries represent his own opinions and not necessarily the views of any organization he may be affiliated with or those of the West Ranch Beacon.






June 7th, 2010 at 8:56 am
[...] Bill Reynolds posts lengthy defense of his swim team attack at the only place that will have him: WRB. “That special interest swim team group, including certain board members, adopted an entitlement mentality some years ago and they have not concerned themselves with conducting any level of rational conversation towards resolution, which is why I finally resigned from the board in protest,” he writes WRB [...]
June 7th, 2010 at 9:47 am
I have to say, I am pretty disappointed by this attack. Once again It proves how our own Stratford board members and not willing to listen to the people they claim to represent. Also sad to see that once again, instead of choosing to stand and make his arguments in public, or where he knows his lack of facts, and misinterpretation of the truth, and mininformation will be challenged, he decides to write on a site where he thinks he will not be seen.
I would respectfully point out to BIll, (even though he is now an ex-board member), that the board have yet to answer almost every specific question I have put to them under the ‘right to inspection’ clauses in the CCR’s, that the liability issue they have been using to eliminate the team has been either resolved or proved wrong by professional, independent experts time and time again. The board (and the small band of supporters it has) continue to wage a personal, emotional and biased vendetta against a positive community initiative, refusing to take part in any meaningful mediation – and without the support of the majority of their own homeowners. The only encouraging thing is that as they get more and more desperate, they show their true colors and their growing inability to conduct themselves in a professional unbiased manner, becoming of appointed officials. Under the CCR’s and Bylaws, the Stratford Board of Directors must consider the Stratford homeowners as a majority. It must proceed in the best interest of all homeowners and not the special interest of a few, as a matter of law. It’s about time they began to follow these bylaws, before the homeowners that they ‘claim’ to represent take steps to remove them and replace them with more reasonable, professional people, better suited to carry out their duties and obligations to the community.
June 7th, 2010 at 10:13 am
Mr.Reynolds forgets that the Summit Swim team is “the community at large”, on the order of 150+ families. That holds larger sway than this small minority at Stratford.
I am delighted and appreciative of the Summit HOA support for the swim team and not to cave to this small group.
Go Seals!!!
June 7th, 2010 at 10:51 am
Liability was an issue for the property owners in the Summit and that has been fixed now!
Why blame Bill for bring a liability issue to light and getting it fixed by the Stattford homes getting more insurance? God bless the children as they are now allowed to dive in shallow water.
The outrageous man shouting about honor had NO idea that Bill he was in the Special Forces? He himself had not done his homework before yelling a very hurtful statement!
Bill remained silent, he knows where his honor is…Our country!
June 7th, 2010 at 11:19 am
Annette, thanks much for your comments, but for the record only, I was NOT in Special Forces… just an Infantryman.
Rob & Kelly, regardless of your “feelings” about the swim team, you have to admit that allowing children to dive into the shallow end of any pool is reckless behavior. Why should a small group of less than a hundred participants force our entire association of 1,019 homeowners to allow such a huge liability to continue? Having adequate insurance and stopping kids diving into our pool is simply “logical”.
June 7th, 2010 at 11:27 am
Bill:
When can I pick you up to go to the factory?
June 7th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
Mr. Reynolds,
You make some perhaps valid points above (I say “perhaps” only because I have not checked the facts on them so I have no opinion about them one way or another); however, you repeat three times a specific statement about “children diving into the shallow end,” either because you have great concern about this activity, or you are simply trying to use it as a scare tactic to stir up emotions and create dissent towards the swim team. Since I do not know you, I truly do not know your agenda there.
So let me share, that if this is indeed a real concern of yours, there are countless attorneys who specialize in shallow diving injuries, and if you will simply do some research, you will indeed find out that competitive swimmers, children or otherwise, especially supervised as they are by swim coaches, are fairly considered exempt by lawyers from the dangers of diving in the shallow end.
It is the unwitting, perhaps inebriated, teens and early-twenty-somethings who utilize the pool unsupervised 365 days-a-year which pose the liability problem to your Stratford residents about whom you claim to carry such concern. Attorneys state that it is they who are the high percentage of the problem, again, not the swim team (who, in my research, have no reported injuries in any local area (or other ares) for decades, while there are numerous shallow end injuries from the latter).
So, while I see disappointing name-calling and unwarranted accusations on SCVTalk from both sides, if you indeed have an impartial opinion about the existence and safety of the swim team (and are not being driven by resentment or a hidden agenda to have the team removed because of purported inappropriate emotional behavior from scared and threatened parents) then separate the true liability concerns from your frustration, and simply see that this is a positive program for the kids, just as it is for your grandson to go out and pitch. There are undoubtedly plenty of unsavory parents on your grandkid’s team, but you aren’t trying to shut down little league as a result (as far as I know). So, since insurance is in place, and certain events are being curbed, why don’t you back down from this issue and let it go?
June 7th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
Rob, I just re-read your comments above and I would also suggest that you read my write-up again. If I didn’t want my comments known why would I request having them posted here? Obviously, you failed to attend Summit board meetings last year when the swim team issue was discussed otherwise you would know full what my concerns were and where they remain.
Meanwhile, you should ask the Summit Board why they violated a written agreement with your Stratford Board. You should also verify actual insurance coverage as I believe that information is not fully transparent. If the swim team agreed to cease allowing kids to dive into the shallow end of our pool, you should thank your Stratford Board.
It’s ironic that you are opposed to what you consider special interests within the Stratford Collection, but could careless about special interests within our entire 1,019 homeowner association.
Lastly, I would be happy to meet with you face to face to discuss this further. So far, Tim Myers and Jeff Wilson have avoided meeting with me, but maybe you have more courage than those two possess?
June 7th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Here’s a brilliant idea: Why not make the swim team pay their fair share for use of the club house and for regularly taking over the pool? Why do they get all this for only a fraction of what it would cost to join a private swim team? Non-swim team families (comprising the majority of Summit and Stratford residents) should not have to supplement the relatively small group of swim team residents. This reminds me of welfare. Seems Obama’s “spread the wealth” sentiment is alive and well at the Summit. Any caring parent would put their child on a private team to ensure their safety …but then they wouldn’t get all the freebies paid for by other peoples’ money.
June 7th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
Some may not like my opinion but the youngsters today feel they are entitled to so much more than they actually work for themselves.
June 7th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
Seal Parent, I am not trying to shut down the swim team – how could I possibly possess that power even if I wanted to shut down the team? I’m no longer on the board and I have no say whatsoever as to the Seal’s status.
I simply responded to Tim Myer’s inaccurate Signal column yesterday whereby he invoked my name. Myer’s does not live in the Summit nor does he attend our board meetings and it seems clear he’s receiving second hand information that he did not bother to investigate.
As to investigating swimming pool accidents, that’s been done by experts who share these concerns. One homeowner recently attended our board meeting and cited several multi-million $$ awards. That fellow was a former attorney for State Farm. Indeed, a few months ago, I felt I was receiving bad information regarding insurance coverage so I contacted State Farm and was told that if they thought there was swim team activity they would not renew our policy. Later, the board dropped State Farm.
I personally do not know our insurance status, but I am suspicious because if State Farm said they would drop our coverage for Swim Team activity, what would have happened if a serious injury occured? Personally, I don’t think it’s right for a small group of people to impose their will upon the majority, especuially when it comes to unnecessary risks. The good news, apparently, is that the swim team agreed to stop allowing kids to dive into the shallow end of our pool. I hope this is true.Like I said I do not know the status of the Seal’s but I noticed they had a pancake breakfast event last Saturday so it appears all systems are go. Is there still a worry on your part that the Seal’s season will not happen?
Sincerely,
Bill Reynolds
June 7th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Tim Myers, it’s unlikely that they will let you out of the factory to go anywhere. Good luck…
June 7th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Jo, this is an HOA not a club, the Seals use the pool less than 1% of the time that it is open in a years time. I do not play tennis so why do I need to pay to redo the tennis courts make the tennis plaers pay for it, I do not use the pool either, I have my own, so why not let lap swimmers pay a per lap fee. Pleaser remember that each and every one of those Seals parents pay monthly dues and are entitled to use the pool every single day and can use it without insurance. It is a great program for our entire comuunity.
June 7th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
Just for the sake of speed, could all Anti-Seal posters please end their comments with “by cracky!”
June 7th, 2010 at 7:46 pm
First, I would like to thank Bill Reynolds for taking on the responsilbilty of getting the Summit facilities repaired after years of neglect by the board and the management company. His resignation under protest is a great loss to the Summit association. Unfortunately only special interest board members now remain.
He tried to bring a balanced and cooperative agenda to the board and only received the most obnoxious response from the swim team special interest board members. The Stratford board, who are a subdivision of the Summit Homeowners Association are only trying to bring a balanced and responsible approach of representation to the Summit Association. They not only pay dues to their association but dues to the Summit HOA Association.
Now fir the rather ridiculous article by Tim Myers printed in the Signal “If I get old and grumpy, take me to the Solvent Green factory “. First he admits he is old, I though he was much older. So healready qualifies in that respect for the Soylent Green factory where he wishes to go. Secons he sure sounds grumpy in that article so he qualifies again. But before they deliver you to the nearest Soylent Green factory , here are a few comments on your article since you mentioned my name several times.
My the way, is the Soylent Green factory in your neighborhood? Did your neighborhood approve it?
First,since you seem to like numbers you should know that the Summit HOA Board has five members. Two members can’t shut down any thing. Then you go on to call me a “left-wing activist”. That really shows your ignorance. Since when are Republicans left-wing.
Even with their approved swim contract the swim team members weren’t happy. They launched a recall against me after only a few months on the board. This is their standard practice, it is used to force resignations but that is whole new issue for another time. I will only say that at this time that the parents of the swim team are the problem not the kids. As for my recall, since you like numbers Tim you know percents can be used to get any result the user wants.
At times you seem to have a senior moment or perhaps your handlers failed to give complete information. Perhaps you should check out the qualified recall of two Summit HOA board members, Alan Zada and Steve Tannehill. I will be happy to provide you with the documentation.
You might ask your handlers if they know what a NO DIVING sign means. Guess that is just for other members of the Summit HOA Association. If the current four Summit Board members want diving in the Summit pools, take down the NO DIVING signs and allow it for all members not just their cronies.
June 7th, 2010 at 9:02 pm
Such brilliance, Timmy! Did your Nebraska better half come up with that one?
June 7th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
Alex, your comparison is akin to our City Manager justifying his 24 hour traffic study; no one really cares about traffic at 2:00am. Since you’re able to have your own recreational center perhaps you should have chosen another community to reside since you obviously knew you would pay dues for all of our facilities. And by the way, I suggest that you read our CC&R’s, especially the part about homeowners rights of enjoyment to all of our rec ctrs. So, if what you say is true, why all the angst?
June 7th, 2010 at 9:32 pm
Bill,
Once I note your comments about diving, and will not bother to reiterate once again the low risk of injury is (reflected by insurance assessors and lawyers and for more intelligent and experienced people than either of us!).
If I had felt my own two daughters to have any risk, I certainly would not have enrolled them in the program for the last five years. There is more risk from the serving of alcohol at the clubhouse for private events and the chance that drunken individuals could fall in and drown, yet I do not see our Board pursuing that ‘liability issue’.
Ultimately the fact remains that I have been consistently asking the board since March of this year, for the specific costs for us as HOA members to pursue this case legally, and why we chose not to participate in mediation activity to resolve this. to this date, I have never been given that information and 90% of my questions have been ignored and remain unanswered. As you know our homeowner fees are significantly more expensive than the summit (to my mind unacceptably so), and the thought of me funding an unwarranted court case – and spending money on BOTH SIDES is simply ridiculous.
And yes, As I pointed out to the board, I work and therefore am unable to make it back to the board meetings – and yes, I find the whole HOA process painful and hamstrung by red tape. However, I have now learnt (painfully) that by not participating, my views will not be taken into account, and others agenda’s will pass unchecked without any form of balances, and I simply can no longer allow that to happen.
Since all the liability issues have been resolved, provisions made for ‘safety’ and a scaled back program which acquiesces to every single demand that the Stratford board has asked for, regardless of the history, why can we not now simply allow this to go ahead – if nothing else, for the sake of our kids, and the sake of our community.
You must agree how fracturing and damaging this whole dispute has become.
FInally, I would be happy to meet and discuss this with you over a coffee, it would certainly be refreshing to actually be able to TALK to someone about this fully and frankly and not be ‘fobbed off’ by the Board’s Management committee which has been the case to date.
June 7th, 2010 at 9:35 pm
Couple points about Bill’s column.
First of all I think Bill gives a pretty clear picture of where he’s coming from. I strongly encourage everyone to read his post carefully. I think you’ll get a pretty good picture of how Bill sees the world.
The “pro swim team sympathizers” Bill demonizes are roughly 2/3 of the families that live in the Summit. Cam was recalled with a 66% majority and in the last election “pro swim team” candidates beat the “anti swim team” candidates by over a 2:1 margin. In addition the 5 member Board which stands for election every two years has approved a swim team every year for the past almost 20 yrs; as far as I can remember by a unanimous vote. The real issue here is Bill is against the swim team and simply can’t accept that he’s in the minority.
The current year swim team contract was approved before Bill & Cam came on the board – they asked for it to be reconsidered and insisted it be put on the agenda. Once on the agenda as an action item it of course had to be voted on. Bill and Cam voted to terminate the swim team but lost, 3-2.
Bill suggested the swim team rules contradicted the CC&Rs; he famously failed in a meeting to understand the difference between a CC&R adopted by the membership and pool usage rules adopted by the board. The discrepancies existed between the pool usage rules and the swim team rules, not with the CC&Rs. Where the pool usage rules and swim team rules differed they were reconciled, in many cases adjusting old obsolete pool usage rules (which needless to say don’t generally get a whole lot of attention) to conform to the new more rigorous swim team rules.
Of critical importance is that everyone realize that the families that are on the Summit Seals ARE Summit homeowners (its required). The families pay HOA rules AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO USE THE MAIN POOL WHENEVER THEY WANT. The swim team gives structure and organization to the activity; it does NOT give the kids the right to use the main pool, they already own that right as dues paying homeowners.
The diving issue is somewhat of a red herring. The HOA used to allow diving AND USED TO PROVIDE A DIVING BOARD for all homeowners to use. Over time the board decided to remove the diving board which is fine. The Summit pool conforms to the minimum depth of a competitive swimming pool and trained swimmers doing an appropriate shallow swimmer’s dive has never been a problem. However as the HOA has backed away from allow diving the swim team has gone along and agreed to have all the dives occur at the deep end.
The clubhouse is paid for like every other amenity in the Summit with HOA dues. It also typically sits unused 24-25 days a month. The 4 – 5 times the clubhouse was used by the swim team over a 2 mo swim season did not make a material dent in that. It still remains unused most of the time.
It’s been hard for those of us who have lived in the Summit for a long time to understand the anger and hostility Bill, Cam and a handful of Stratford Board members feel towards the summer swim program. I think tho’ if you read what Bill has to say, and have read and observed Cam’s work in the community over the past 15-20 yrs, you’ll see there is a pattern of anger and hostility towards people and groups they disagree with. I think unfortunately the Summit Seals is just the latest institution that for them embodies all that they feel is wrong with the world.
Bill says this is for him a microcosm of the national political arena. I think that is a far more revelatory statement than he intended.
June 7th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
After reading this and many other articles and information for and against the swim team, I think it is sad and pathetic that as neighbors, we can’t just get along. I see a lot of name calling and finger pointing. Like I tell the elementary school students I work with, it doesn’t matter who started it. There are much more important things to use your time on. It’s time to be noble and stop the bickering! Community pride and suppport should become our goals such was evident in Stevenson Ranch last week when many SCV neighbors came out to support Pfc. Jake Suter’s family when this 18 year old Marine died for our country. That is worth spending my time on…not this…Maybe each side needs to pull out their white flags and meet somewhere in the middle.
June 8th, 2010 at 7:12 am
Steve T. should have taken his own advice to carefully read my letter as his last sentence explains his own short comings… I stated: “a good friend” said this issue is a microcosm…
This manipulation reveals Steve leanings as he appears quite content spending other people’s money and trodding on other people’s rights. Could this be a pattern…
As for anger, hostility and the Seals being all that is wrong with the world… these notions are plainly ridiculous. Has anyone noticed BP’s oil spill and/or our recent stock market plunge? Now these are real problems.
I wrote my letter in response to Tim Myer’s column in Sunday’s Signal where he called me out and I will continue protecting my name as required. Advice to Tim Myers: try avoiding these type people using you. For some reason they are desperate.
Community Member, you are absolutely correct. My wife and I were at Stevenson’s Ranch that day waving our flags and saluting our brave Marine. May God Bless Him.
Rob, I’d like to meet you but not sure how we can do it… maybe we have a mutual acquaintenance who could povide you my phone number or e-mail address?
June 8th, 2010 at 7:26 am
Bill, I was answering another post, you did not need to respond to me, but since you did I will respond back to you. I have no clue what the heck you are talking about. Let me go slower, what I said was that our facilities are there to be enjoyed no matter if you personally use them or not. The more use by our homeowners the better, what is wrong with that. I don’t play tennis but have no issue with homeowners using our tennis courts all the time, same goes for swim team, we have 4 pools, what the heck is the problem with them using ONE pool for 6 weeks for 4 hours per day, it’s not like there are hundreds of people clamoring outside the gates, as an FYI Bill when swim team is not using the pool in late July and August there are very few people at the pool during the hours swim team was using the facility. Let’s face it Bill, you and Cam are very negative about everything in this community that is why you both have no credibility throughout our city.
June 8th, 2010 at 8:17 am
Alex, I realize that you are a swim team sympathizer and that is your right, but in America I too get to express my opinion. This really has nothing to do with you or me; it’s up to the two boards to settle this – hopefully out of court. Maybe it’s already settled, I don’t know. Like Community member stated above, there are things much more important… like going to the beach. Bye!
June 8th, 2010 at 9:12 am
Bill, not sure what you mean by swim team sympathizer, is that supposed to be a bad thing?. I do not have kids on swim team, my kids are grown and moved out long ago, I am an old fart like you, but I do not spend my time trying to shut down a kids program that has been great for our community for over 20 years. I unlike you try to help out our community by encouraging more kid’s activities and involvement. I volunteer my time trying to help our young people rather than tear them down; I tutor, mentor and coach our young people instead of making wacky videos and looking for conspiracies under every rock like you. I have been up at the pool a few times to see practices and have even stopped to see a meet a few years ago, the energy and dedication that I see is incredible. These youngsters will forever remember their time on the swim team as one that has influenced and shaped them. Yes Bill, there are many more important things in life than to try to tear down our community. How about you go up to the pool today and volunteer your time helping swim team, I know your life experiences would be wonderful for the kids. To everyone out there, please don’t believe the stereotype that all of us old people are against kids activities. Unlike Bill, we believe that the youngster are our future and we need to invest time in them.
June 8th, 2010 at 10:11 am
Alex, obviously you do not know me…
June 8th, 2010 at 10:39 am
Bill, you are right, what I know of you has been what YOU have writtren on blogs and your videos and seeing you on the board and how you handle yourself and your constant negativity. I guess I am wrong maybe those kids would be better not having you anywhere close to them.
June 8th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
Alex, keep trying… I am satisfied to know that there are many in our community who appreciate my contributions; what you think about me is completely irrelevant and misguided.
Happy Tuesday!
June 9th, 2010 at 8:56 am
Bill, then why do you even post on here or on other sites with all your crap and hate if you don’t want anyone to respond, you give us old retired folks a bad name. You are going to make people believe the sterotypes that we are all wacky like you and Cam.
June 9th, 2010 at 9:39 am
1. Why doesn’t swim team pay their fair share for taking over the pool and club house?
2. Why does Alex resort to name calling like curdmudgeon, solent green factory, cranky? Children say you are a poo poo head when they can’t use logic.
3. Why does Rob keep bringing up inebriated adults falling or diving and comparing it to children that are TOLD to dive? The latter is controllable.
We are discussing adults here; the swim team adults (parents) should pay their fair share for what their kids use. HOA fees should not supplement swim team activities. Thanks to Bill, the facilities have been tremendously improved but nobody thanks Bill for that except Cam. He spent a tremendous amount of time and effort photographing rotting facilities so he could ensure residents realized the extent to which the facilities were falling apart. He should be thanked for helping the residents, not vilified. Bill, thank you for your service to this country when you served in Viet Name and being wounded there and a special thanks for making sure the facilities have been repaired. A bunch of grumpy ingrates don’t appreciate all you have done for the summit.
June 9th, 2010 at 9:57 am
Alex, are you off your meds again this morning? Provide me a hateful statement I’ve made. You just don’t agree with my opinion on certain things. Get over yourself Dude, life is too short…
June 9th, 2010 at 10:30 am
Bill you are truly a legend in your own mind.
June 9th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Bill, there’s so many things I could write in response to your many posts, but I’ll stick to responding to just one today, and that’s your smokescreen issue of our poor little kids being forced to dangerously dive in the shallow end of the pool. I’ve commented about this on another site, as have others. And yet, you continue to boast that, if nothing else, your efforts have all been worthwhile because these poor kids will now be safe. As I was watching the 9-12 year old kids practicing yesterday, I kept staring at the dangerous 3 1/2 foot end of the pool. While I didn’t have a tape measure with me, it sure seemed like the distance from the water line to the top of the deck was around 18″ to 20″, at the most. I got to thinking, is it even physically possible for a 30-60 lb kid to generate enough downward force from that height, through the water, to be able to hit their face/head on the bottom of the pool with enough force to chip a tooth, break a nose, or, God forbid, to break a neck. Having a business degree and not a physics degree, I can only speculate that it would not seem possible. For those of you who are not Bill, you might think these kids are diving into the pool from the top of platforms that you saw the swimmers diving off in the Olympics. That is not the case at our pool, or at any of the other HOA pools that we compete at. These kids are “diving” from a mere 18″ above the surface of the water. And, as others have mentioned, many of the 4 and 5 year olds haven’t really mastered that yet, and tend to “dive” in by jumping straight out, arms outstretch, and legs kicking like they’re pedaling a bike. They mostly land feet first, sometimes belly first, and then take off for the other end. Bill would like you to think that they’re diving from 4-5 feet up, needing to aggressively curve their body once they hit the water so as to not smash their face against the bottom. Shallow diving, especially from a mere 18″ above the water line, is a very, very low risk action. It’s more of an act of pushing OUT rather than UP. Is there SOME risk? Yes, there is SOME risk. Is it ACCEPTABLE risk? Well, in Bill’s eyes, apparently no, so he needed to come to the rescue (with others). In the Summit HOA Board’s eyes, in the parent’s eyes, in the INSURANCE CARRIER’S eye’s, the risk apparently is ACCEPTABLE. Should the concerns that you and 4 or 5 of your friends have outweigh the reality of the situation? I think not, so that’s where we’ll “agree to disagree” (to use a cruddy cliche). But, I don’t want to stray too far off the diving smokescreen…errr, issue and get into the liability smokescreen…errrr, issue.
And by the way, Bill, the reason we continue to keep up the “fight” on this issue is because the “others” are keeping up their fight, and we are bound and determined to have this wonderful community activity around for another 21 years!
June 9th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
As for all of you folks who think these young men and women are dying “for our country” you are wrong, they are dying for our dependence on oil.
June 10th, 2010 at 6:29 am
To Jo, I never used any of those words, please reread my posts. You are mistaking me for someone else. I was saying not all us old people are like Bill and Cam, we actually think kids activities are good for our community and they are great benefits to everyone inlcuding my resale value onmy home.
June 10th, 2010 at 7:32 am
Bill and Cam, please use facts
Here are some real facts
FACT: The recall of Cam was not started by swim team parents; it was started by a former board member that was friends with Bill and Cam. He realized that she was an obstructionist and was a detriment to our HOA. He had never had kids on swim team or in any way involved with swim team.
FACT: Cam was recalled with 66% of the votes to remove her from office, she received more than 4 times the number of votes than there are swim team parents, this indicated that there was a wide support for her recall thought our community, not just swim team. So this was not a swim team recall of Cam it was the community at large tired of her shenanigans. Removal of an HOA board member from office is very rare and almost impossible due to the high required vote thresholds and civil code regulations.
http://hometownstation.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16881&Itemid=0
http://hometownstation.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16772&Itemid=0
FACT: After her removal from office Cam sued the association, claiming minor technicalities. The court dismissed her case and let the recall stand, but in the process she cost the HOA $ 7500 in attorney fees. This was after her request for a recount that cost the HOA an additional $ 1000.
FACT: The swim team contract was and has been reviewed by two different attorneys on numerous occasions, not once have they ever indicated that it was against our CCR’s to have a swim team. In fact the attorney’s indicated that this contract protects the HOA and offers very little protection for the swim team, according to the HOA’s attorney the swim team could actually swim without any contact or any insurance since they are all homeowners.
FACT: In a recent HOA meeting, one of our insurance carrier said that he as so impressed with the swim team contract that he even asked if he could use it for other HOA’s that have swim teams.
FACT: In the last HOA election, Bill and Cam’s anti-swim team candidates were soundly defeated, again demonstrating how the community supports the swim team.
FACT: The Stratford board does not pay any fee to use the Summit clubhouse for their meetings. Never heard anything about making them pay their fair share.
FACT: In the many years that the swim team has been incorporated, there has never been one single injury or claim to the insurance company.
FACT: The swim team does not cost the association one extra cent. The contract states that any damage or extra clean up will be paid for by swim team.
FACT: The board’s position has always been that any homeowner group can use the facilities at no charge. The board wanted the facilities to be used. The board was all for groups such an exercise club, bridge club or a water aerobics club to be able to use the facility at no charge as long as they were homeowners and had the necessary insurance. The board has always encouraged Easter egg hunts and Halloween events, that is what makes our community much more than just a bunch of houses.
June 10th, 2010 at 8:39 am
To all, here are a few actual facts: swim team sympathizers on and off the board pushed Cam’s recall. Petition signatures, numerous flyers and e-mail messages back up this assertion. It’s well known who wanted Cam off the board, so Alan don’t act like you had nothing to do with it and the huge cost to our HOA… we have your flyers and e-mail. Cam’s unnecessary recall cost our association many dollars and now the swim team controversy is costing our HOA huge sums of $$’s.
The reason I resigned from the board is that I could not tolerate being part of a board that violated a signed agreement with Stratfords then modified our clubhouse rental policy and pool use rules to simply favor their special interests.
Be advised that many of Alan’s so-called facts, are slightly skewed (to say the least) and he left off a number of other “pertinent” facts.
If the swim team agreed to cease having kids dive into a shallow pool, I applaud the Stratfords. If the swim team acquired adequate insurance this season, I applaud the Stratfords.
With certainty, had the Stratfords not stepped up, our entire association would be rolling the dice once again this year by approving kids diving into a shallow pool and without proper insurance to protect all of us.
If anyone would like to discuss these issues further in person, I am available.
June 10th, 2010 at 8:43 am
Carrie, Carrie, Carrie… so, our young Soldiers and Marines are dying for nothing, eh? If left to you America would simply turn it’s cheek when terrorists kill innocent Americans and attack our freedom. Just because countless American heroes have enabled you to make stupid statements doesn’t mean you should do it.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:54 am
On the diving issue….
Kids on the swim team are taught how to dive safely with life guard and coach supervision. I am a teacher at a local elementary school and am bothered by this attitude. Remember the days of playing dodge ball at school? No longer allowed, unsafe. What about capture the flag? Not safe. It seems every year we have another sport/activity that we are no longer allowed to play because it is “not safe”. I fear that soon, kids will be told to sit on the bench or under a tree during recess, because everything else is unsafe.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:55 am
I guess I am made small error, in the first fact I posted, the person that initated the recall against Cam was not friends with Bill….is that better Bill?
June 10th, 2010 at 11:46 am
Erica, well said. Yes everyting we do and the kids do have some dangers in it (very small) but some of these peopele are so afraid of everything and liabiltiy and lawsuits that they are preventing these kids from having a real childhood. It is very sad indeed. God bless you for teaching these kids.
June 10th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Alan, we all know who started that expensive recall – you had it right the first time. Did someone call you?
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Erica, just because a small group of people are willing to risk having kids dive into a shallow pool, does not give a right to impose that risk on the rest of us. Are the Seal’s still diving into the shallow end of our pool?
June 10th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
Bill,
You’ve made numerous comments in the past referring to how safe the Stratford HOA board has now made “us”, and how “we” are now better protected. I know you feel that the kids were in danger, and now you feel they are safer due to the change in the pool rules regarding diving that the Summit HOA recently put in place. However, you also infer that you feel your house is in danger too. As a fellow Summit homeowner, I certainly don’t want to lose my house over the actions of a community activity such as a swim team event or Easter egg hunt. Is it accurate for me to assume that someone has provided to you (or you have found on your own) several precedent cases where homeowners within an HOA have had liens put on their homes, or where these homeowners have actually lost their homes, or where these individual homeowners have been required to tap their own liability insurance to defend against a plaintiff that was seriously hurt on HOA common grounds/facilities? If so, I would really like to see that data. Again, as a fellow Summit homeowner, I do not want my house put at risk over this. I assume this data that you have shows that someone got seriously hurt, due to negligence, in an HOA facility/common area, and that the plaintiff’s lawyers successfully blew threw various waivers and insurance policies and were able to attach to the individual homes in that HOA. That would be interested reading. That’s what would need to happen in the situation of the swim team. As a former Summit HOA board member, you know that there is a release of liability and indemnification waiver that is signed by all swim team parents, as well as by everyone from other teams that come to compete. The stand-alone Seals’ corporation is indemnified, the Summit HOA board and members are indemnified (which includes individual homeowners in the Summit and Stratfords), and “associated organizations” (such as the Stratford HOA Board) are indemnified. The stand-alone Seals’ corporation also has liability insurance, should someone be successful at blowing through the waiver. That corporation used to have $2mm, but then was asked to bump it to $5mm. The insurance carrier says the Seals are now the highest insured swim team in the county, as far as they can tell. Then, the Summit HOA has $16mm of liability insurance (formerly $8mm, I believe). Then, I believe I’ve heard that there’s a civil statute in place that prevents individual homes from being attached to if the HOA has at least $3mm of liability insurance. So, as a fellow Summit homeowner, I am very interested to read case studies where this level of liability coverage has been completely blown through, and liens have been placed on the individual homes. So, if there truly is “unnecessary and excessively high liability” for us homeowners, as you stated, then I think we all need to be able to see the data that supports that opinion. I would be happy to meet with you in order to review that data. Also, I’m mostly interested in knowing where we stand now, not what sort of risk we had 3 or 5 or 10 years ago. I don’t usually lose sleep over an old issue, especially if I didn’t even know it was an issue at the time.
June 10th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
Bill, Alan;
And, if memory serves, when the person that started the Cam recall first came on the board, wasn’t he pretty much against the swim team? Didn’t he then attend a couple practices, maybe a meet? Didn’t he eventually become the Board’s swim team liaison, to learn more about the team, and eventually agree that it was a good thing for the community? Maybe I’m thinking of the wrong person.
June 10th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Mike (upper case M), we are talking about Rick, he was not against the swim team, he was pretty much neutral on the subject. Had never had kids on swim team or ever had an association with swim team so did not know much about it. He was made the swim team liaison and was involved along with myself and our attorney in re-writing the swim team contract (according to the insurance agent one of the toughest swim team contracts he had seen). Rick was a great board member, very dedicated and well respected (you can ask anyone that served with him or saw him on the baord). We did not always vote on the same side, but I respected him immensely as a board member and as a person. Rick attended a few practices and meets and realized the importance of swim team to our community. His initiation of the recall had nothing to do with any swim team issues.
June 10th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
Mike, you are talking about the exact right person and it’s not who Alan would now have you think it is. Just so you know, Alan has made a number of inaccurate public statements about swim team activity and recall issues. Maybe that’s why he was petitioned for recall which lead to his prompt resignation last year.
As for your liability concerns, I suggest that you conduct your own research as you deem necessary to satisfy your own mind. I have no bone to pick here as my position (not that it means anything) remains rock solid – if the swim team agreed to stop allowing kids to dive into shallow pools and if the swim team acquired it’s own adequate insurance that actually covers all 1,019 Summit homeowners, what’s not to like? I remain confused why this conversation continues… why the handwringing? This makes one wonder if the eyes aren’t dotted and the tee’s aren’t crossed.
Mike, there’s a lot more to the controversy and I would gladly meet you for further discussion if it’s important to you.
Sincerely,
Bill Reynolds
June 10th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
Erica makes a very good point. I keep hearing Bill Reynolds is a tea party kind of guy, but isn’t tellinh 5 yr olds its unsafe to jump into the pool shallow end bringing the nanny state into our own community? What’s next, telling them they can’t ride their bikes because they might fall?
June 10th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Dear Summit Homeowner, does wearing seatbelts make sense and do you have auto insurance?
June 10th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
This commentis for Alan Zada and Steve Tannehill
I resent having to waste my time dealing with individuals like you. But since you continue to act in the same immature manner as you did when I was on the board here are a few facts:
Fact: A qualified recall was filed to remove both of you from the Summit Board. You both were allowed to resign in the future and vote on your own replacements. Your votes along with that of David Gauny placed Jose Estrada and Lisa Robertiello on the board without a vote of the association.
Fact: My recall passed by just six votes. See how deceptive percents can be.
Fact: You both circulated lies throughout the association about my family and myself.
Fact: In my very short time on the board I was treated in a crude and rude manner.
Fact: The so-called lawsuit was a small claims case. No lawyers allowed.
How can any competent association board spend $7,500 on a small claims case?
As for the swim team, if the legal questions have been settled what is your problem?
June 10th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
interesting to me that despite all the public debate, my board refuses to acknowledge my letters and respond to my concerns and rights as a paying homeowner. I have constantly challenged them to meet with the other parties in public and join in a protected, moderated and unbiased debate in front of the community. They have refused to answer to this, or simple questions such as how much of my HOA money has been spent on fighting this case. All items that I am legally entitled to know. This raises important questions about their professionalism and ability to carry out their mandated duties to a satisfactory level. Once again, I ask them to step out under the protection of an independent mediator and find a solution without resorting to threats, harassment and ignoring the very people they are legally mandated to represent.
June 11th, 2010 at 6:45 am
Rob, I think you are correct. We all deserve to know the total amount spent to date on legal fees by both HOA’s.
June 11th, 2010 at 7:58 am
Hi Cam –
>Fact: A qualified recall was filed to remove both of you from the Summit Board.
Absolutely true. It takes 5% of the members to ask for a vote on whether or not someone s/b recalled. Once you were served w/ your recall vote notice you and Bill went door to door primarily in the Stratfords to get a vote to remove me and Alan from the board (at that time you were still buds w/ David so he was left off). I had 3 mos left on my 2 yr term; an election costs the association several thousand dollars, I found a highly qualified replacement willing to take my spot (Jose E), so I nominated Jose to take my spot, he was voted in over your no vote, and I resigned. Three months later Jose stood for reelection and was reelected to the board receiving more votes than any other candidate.
As I’ve said many times, Bill and I don’t agree on much, but we agree on one thing – both of us would rather see Jose on the HOA board than me! (sorry Jose!) (tho’ given Bill’s recent resignation because he can’t get along with the four new board members any better than he did with Alan, David and me perhaps that’s no longer true . . .)
>Fact: My recall passed by just six votes. See how deceptive percents can be.
Not really – 66% is still 66%. It took not only 2 votes to recall you for every vote for you rec’d to stay on, it took 2 to recall you for every qurom vote that didn’t express a preference! Yet the desire to recall you was strong enough to accomplish that. Candidly I didn’t think it was possible. Turns out I was wrong.
>Fact: The so-called lawsuit was a small claims case. No lawyers allowed.
You didn’t have a lawyer, but obviously the association had to pay management time and lawyers to properly defend the association. And you lost that case.
The fact is Cam between the two days you spent in VMG’s office reviewing the recall ballots one by one, and your sniping at the board which continued long after Alan and I had left, you have run up Association legal and management costs of over $10,000.
$10,000 ($2,000 of which comes out of Stratford residents’ pockets btw).
You complain about the swim team using the club house “for free”; if they were charged the same rate you paid when you held SCOPE meetings at the clubhouse that’s what – $25 a rental? So you complain because they don’t pay a couple hundred bucks yet you cost the homeowners over $10,000?
Nice
>As for the swim team, if the legal questions have been settled what is your problem?
Swim team is off and running and already having a great season. There’s a great family bbq coming up at the big pool where over a hundred Summit families will gather to swim, bbq, socialize and watch their kids form wonderful community memories that will last a lifetime. A bunch of kids home from college will be there catching up with old friends. Presuming you and your ilk are done attacking them then there s/b no further problems.
June 11th, 2010 at 8:13 am
I have to laugh at Cam’s comments. I was at that recall meeting. Cam you received like 290 votes to remove you and only 150 or so to keep you. Face it Cam, people just don’t like you, you are not a nice person, and people can see that. I have seen you in action at City Council meetings and on the board and read your commentaries in the paper, not a pleasant experience; people roll their eyes every time you speak. I remember you stopping at my house and asking me to sign a petition to recall those other two gentlemen, wasn’t that in retaliation for your recall? I could not believe the lies you were telling me about the reason for the recalling those two gentleman. Please go away Cam.
June 11th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
A few things to add to my previous post:
As far as I know, the Seals are no longer diving into the shallow end of the pool, I just find it ridiculous that they had to stop. As a child I was VERY accident prone, it seems I couldn’t walk down the street without falling over. I was constantly falling off my bike, and was even hit by a car while on my bike when I was 12. Did this worry my parents? Of course. Did they make me stop ridding my bike? Never. They just kept their hospital grade first aid kit handy and hoped for the best. Point: Kids get hurt, you can’t bubble rap them. I think they only thing I have ever done that has not caused injuries is swimming, which I started at the age of 7 on the Seals team, and continued through high school, and still use it as a means to exercise today. To the best of my knowledge, no swimmer in this valley has ever been injured by diving into the shallow end of the pool.
Bill- You state that just because a “small group of people are willing to risk having kids dive into a shallow pool, does not give a right to impose that risk on the rest of us”. I’m sorry, are you and your children being forced to dive into the shallow end of the pool? To the best of my knowledge, no swimmer has ever been forced to dive into the shallow end of the pool. When you are a parent of a child who does sports, you accept the risks that go along with it, and with ANY organization, you sign a liability waiver for those risks. A teacher friend of mine’s son just had shoulder surgery for an injury he sustained during a high school football game. Did she sue the school? Of course not, she understood that there was a risk of injury when she allowed her child to participate in football. There is always a risk, when signing up for a sport/activity, that’s why there are liability waivers. If you are concerned that the diving is in violation of Summit CC&Rs, then I suggest the Summit calls for a vote to amend the CC&Rs to read, “Diving not permitted unless during supervised swim team practices, meets, or events”, I’m sure that would pass without a problem. Another question, I understand that many people are upset that the Seals do not pay for use of the club house, well, does the board pay for its use for board meetings? I would like to know your REAL reasons for your vendetta against the team.
Annette: As a teacher I see many kids with that “entitlement” attitude and it bugs me too! However, I do not see how this issue is an entitlement issue.
June 11th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Bill,
I’m disappointed to read your response to my post: “As for your liability concerns, I suggest that you conduct your own research as you deem necessary to satisfy your own mind.” You apparently have information available that indicates that my home ownership, and that of the other Summit homeowners, has been (and still is?) in jeopardy, and yet you tell me to go find the data myself? How is that being a good, responsible neighbor? Did you have this data while serving on the Summit HOA board, and if so, did you share it with the board? It would concern me if our board had significant data in front of it that showed our homes were in jeopardy because of the swim team and they did nothing about it.
As I mentioned previously, the research I have done is to find out that there has been and currently is a waiver/indemnification in place, there has been and is currently adequate liability insurance in place for the swim team, and there has been and is currently adequate liability insurance in place for the Summit HOA. There also has been and is currently a civil statute in place that protects the individual homeowners from liability issues that arise on the common grounds. That CA civil statute is 1365.9, and I’ve pasted it below:
1365.9. (a) It is the intent of the Legislature to offer civil
liability protection to owners of the separate interests in a common
interest development that have common areas owned in
tenancy-in-common if the association carries a certain level of
prescribed insurance that covers a cause of action in tort.
(b) Any cause of action in tort against any owner of a separate
interest arising solely by reason of an ownership interest as a
tenant in common in the common area of a common interest development
shall be brought only against the association and not against the
individual owners of the separate interests, as defined in
subdivision (l) of Section 1351, if both of the insurance
requirements in paragraphs (1) and (2) are met:
(1) The association maintained and has in effect for this cause
of action, one or more policies of insurance which include coverage
for general liability of the association.
(2) The coverage described in paragraph (1) is in the following
minimum amounts:
(A) At least two million dollars ($2,000,000) if the common
interest development consists of 100 or fewer separate interests.
(B) At least three million dollars ($3,000,000) if the common
interest development consists of more than 100 separate interests.
So, as you can see, our individual homes appear to have been protected by civil code for many, many years, as I’m sure the HOA has had at least $3mm of coverage for many, many years. As a former Summit HOA board member, I am pretty certain you knew about this civil code (and all the other “lines of defense”), and yet you continued stating in these blogs that we, as homeowners, were somehow at risk for allowing children to dive at one end of the pool. In fact, our individual homes have probably never been exposed to any significant risk due to the swim team, and it’s a stretch to think that you actually believed we were at risk.
Regarding your satisfaction that the kids are no longer diving into the shallower end of the pool, that was a concession that the swim team board was asked to make by the Summit HOA, who was asked by the Stratford HOA. As I understand it (and as you are fully aware, being a former board member), that change in diving policy was NOT driven by attorneys or by the insurance carrier. Both of those entities were fine with the way we used to conduct our practices and meets. The legal and insurance issues arise when HOA pools have diving boards, not from diving that takes place from the pool deck, particularly during supervised events. So, I guess the swim team will do it this way for this year and then maybe they’ll re-visit it next year. And by the way, for all of you who are not Bill, because he already knows this, the risk that attorneys and insurance carriers are most concerned about at our HOA is the fact that we allow alcohol to be served when people rent out the clubhouse. That is far and away their number one issue, not the activities of the swim team. Of course, alcohol is never served during any swim team event.
So, while you may have done many other good things for our community while serving on the board, some of which were stated on other posts, you did NOT make the kids any safer by pushing for the diving change, as they were in minimal to no danger in the first place, and you did NOT reduce or eliminate Summit homeowner’s risk due to the swim team, as there was little to no risk to them in the first place.
As far as the continued “handwringing”, as you call it, as long as there’s lawyers out there that are telling the Stratford HOA Board that they have some sort of case here, and that board continues to retain and pay those lawyers and private investigators, we will continue to be diligent in our defense of this community activity. However, at the last Summit HOA meeting, the board indicated that they feel they are on solid legal footing in this manner, so I’m content with that, at least at this point in time. But, for the most part, I post here so the public has the information. Granted, I don’t know if there’s 10 people or 10,000 people that read this blog, and, as it seems like a blog for those communities west of I-5, there may not even be that many Summit residents reading it.
June 11th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Hello Alex, I have to tell you that Tannihill will not provide certain “incovenient” truths. For example, if you study the Davis-Stirling Act and our governing docs regarding recalls you will discover that Cam is correct when she said there was a margin of 6 votes. This is indisputable. Cam chose to fight her recall because there were a number of questionable ballots; this was her right.
The heavy cost of her recall lay at the feet of those who wanted her off the board and we all know who they are.
Another incovenient truth (as opposed to Tannihill’s assertion): I resigned in protest from the board because I believed that my board members were not negotiating in good faith with the Stratfords to reach a resolution. Case in point is the fact that the Summit Board violated a written agreement with the Strats. I also disagreed with a number of inflammtory communications from The Summit Board, which I saw as counter productive and confrontational.
In Tannihill’s mind, if you disagree with the board you are deemed uncooperative and you can’t get along.
I’ll tell you this, it was a pleasure serving on the board after Zada and Tannehill left. In the few months Gauny served as our President life was good. Unfortuantely for Jose, he arrived on the scene as President in a very turbulent situation and his unabated bias towards the swim team has likely resulted in many sleepless nights.
Life is good after the HOA!
P.S. As Colin Powell once said, “If you break it, you own it”. Good luck Summit Board.
June 11th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
Bill, what the heck are you talking about, I was at that recall meeting until the end. Yes there were votes that did not count because the person did not sign the ballots etc… but that goes to Cam’s advantage, my math says she got 290 yes votes to remove and 150 to keep her that is about 66% of the people that had an opinion voted to oust her, simple as that. Even if you had given her every single bad ballot and every quorum only ballot and made them into a No vote she still would have been ousted. As far as blaming the cost($ 10,000) that Cam made the HOA incur after her removal on those that recalled her is preposterous, she did not have to spend 2 days going over every single ballot, that was her choice, the court even agreed that the recall would stand, that she had no basis for the lawsuit in overturning the recall, she did not have to go to court. Cam wasted $ 10,000 of our money and you are ok with that?
June 11th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
Erica, let me clarify. The risk I’m talking about has nothing to do with my kids being forced to dive. Because diving is permitted and kids will dive places our 1,019 homeowners at risk. Why do you think those pesky “No Diving” signs have been posted here forever? I do not have a vendetta against the team; if you knew me you would know this. It’s as I sated from my first board meeting as a board member… our CC&R’s/Pool Use rules have prohibited activity that provide exclusive use to groups. I suggested at the Jan ’09 meeting when the swim team contract was agendized that we take time to square up the documents, but I was ignored and demonized for my audacity to raise questions.
As it stands, I’m off the board and it’s up to the boards to settle any differences if any remain.
Good luck…
Mike, I do not take credit nor do I deserve credit for the swim team no longer diving into the shallow end of our main pool. Clearly, the Strats get that credit. As for liability, I was told by State Farm last March that if they thought swim team activity occured such as diving at our rec ctrs, they would not renew our insurance policy. That didn’t sound good to me.
June 11th, 2010 at 6:28 pm
Bill,
As President Reagan would often say, “There you go again!” The vote numbers that Alex stated sound about right…maybe a few less on the “yes” vote. The “margin” that you refer to (6) was the number of votes over the minimum required amount to recall her. I think a recall requires a majority of valid votes of the quorum, which in this case was around 510, I think. So, a majority of that would have been around 255. So, by you saying that “there was a margin of six votes”, you are sort of giving the impression that almost as many people voted to keep Cam as those voted to recall her, right? And, of course, that’s not the case. There were significantly more “recall” votes than “non-recall” votes, but yes, it was just a little bit more than the minimum required…perhaps the 6 votes that you noted.
Are you dead certain that there was a WRITTEN contract that was “violated” between the two HOA boards? Did this have to do with the Summit HOA board not signing the swim team contract until all Stratford HOA board issues had been resolved, or is there another agreement out there? If it’s this one, are you very certain that it was a WRITTEN contract and not just the desire of the Stratford HOA board that the contract not be signed until their issues had been resolved? If in fact it was written and signed by all parties, then that would be very disappointing that the Summit HOA board’s attorney would have allowed his client to sign that, as it would have removed 100% any negotiating power that the Summit HOA board would have.
June 11th, 2010 at 6:34 pm
Bill,
Oh, and you talk about “inflammtory communications” by the Summit board as being “counter productive and confrontational”, do you think your NotAFerryFan videos are productive and non-confrontational? I’ve seen some of them…many of them look fairly “counter productive and confrontational” to me, but that’s just me, I guess.
June 12th, 2010 at 7:39 am
Mike, I would be happy to discuss this stuff with you in person, but meanwhile I am simply saying that per Davis-Stirling, there was a six vote margin and Cam chose to fight it. That’s all I’m sayin’. And yes, the Summit HOA gave a written/signed document to the Strats saying no swim team activity would proceed while resolution was being worked out. Soon afterwards, during negotiations, the Summit Board approved the swim team contract. This is a fact and that was why I resigned in protest. The Summit Board President did not seek attorney advice when he signed it. I was sitting right there when it happened.
Like I said, I am happy to meet you – I have no further stake in this – I resigned – it’s up to the two boards to resolve any remaining issues, if there are any. I’ve already had an amicable meeting with another swim team advocate and we have a clear understanding of the issues.
June 12th, 2010 at 11:59 am
Mr. Reynolds it seems like you and Mr. Tannehill agree on a lot. You agree that Cam was recalled by a 2/3 vote of the Summit community which was six votes more than was needed. You agree that Cam fighting the recall, inspecting the ballots and suing the Association imposed a heavy cost on the Association, apparently over $10,000. You agree that your disagreements with the current HOA board led you to resign.
As a Summit homeowner I applaud your decision to resign from the board. It sounds like the remaining four board members can work well together. The board seemed to function well before you and Cam joined it, now with you and Cam gone I expect it will once again function well. Enjoy your time off the board.
June 12th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Thank you Phil, you are very perceptive. I’m most grateful for the opportunity to have contributed to the many renovation projects that were in such great need and now I can focus on my personal hobbies once again. I too am confident that the current board members will work well together. Afterall, they do have a common purpose which is to ensure special interest groups receive entitlements.
I hope this board and subsequent boards focus much more attention on maintaining our facilities than previous boards (last 15 years) that failed to maintain our wonderful recreational centers.
Since you are so articulate and diplomatic, maybe you should volunteer your time to serve our community? I’m sure that you would fit right in.
Sincerely,
Bill Reynolds
June 13th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Bill- Still unclear to what risk swimmers diving into the shallow end pose to you and your family.
All swimmers are homeowners, and have the right to use the facilities. The facilities remain open during swim practices, so how are they using the facilities “exclusively”? It is my understanding that the Seals’ insurance was more than adequate, and matched those of similar community teams. Due to the Stratford’s case, they have upped their insurance to more than enough, making them the most insured community team in the SCV. Let me also state that the fees paid to be part of the team cover all of the team’s costs and no HOA fees go to pay for anything for the team. Also, I feel the board has done a fantastic job of keeping the pool area updated, it is beautiful. The only thing I think needs work is the club house, which just needs a simple remodel since it is very outdated, which makes sense since it was built over 20 years ago. No damage has been done to the pool or club house as a result of team activities, and if there were, the team is responsible for repairs.
Also, why so much arguing over how many votes recalled Cam? Point is, more people wanted her out than in. That is the joy of living in a democratic society, sorry Cam, majority rules, get over it. It doesn’t matter if you won or lost by one vote, point is, you lost. Now stop complaining about it.
June 13th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Erica, all I can tell you is that many folks believe having children dive into shallow pools is an unnecessary risk that places all homeowners at risk. The risk is that a child would get seriously injured leading to massive claims/legal costs. Apparently, the Seals/Summit Board agreed with this. I have seen swim practices and swim meets… there is no way any regular homeowner can use the pool as freely as they may choose, which a right guaranteed in our CC&R’s. This my opinion and many others believe this as well.
If insurance has been increased, this is good. I agree that the clubhouse/restrooms are in great need of renovation and hopefully, the board can accomplish this task.
I agree… I don’t why there is so much arguing over Cam’s votes. Somebody decided to make her recall an issue on these blogs (Tannihill, I think) and Cam provided a few pertinent facts, which I happen to agree with. Indeed, that issue is history… I’m not complaining.
For the record, it was not me or Cam who chose to make the Summit Seals issue a public debate. I had resigned from the board and the next thing I knew “certain” folks decided the Seals/Strats problem should be advertised via a blog and thye Signal. That is the only reason I requested a posting of my letter above on this blog.
Have a nice summer…
June 13th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
Bill, Cam was the first one to bring the recall issue on this blog (see comment 15) people responded to her inaccurate assessment of the issue and how it was portrayed. As far as the pool not being able to be used, there are 3 other pools within our community. The only time that pool might not be able to be used by homeowners would be during a swim meet (that happens once or twice at the most between 8 am and 12 pm on a Saturday). Other wise the facility is open and used by homeowner when the Seals practice.
As far as your opposing to swim team, that was evident from day one on the board, after you were on the board I offered to get together with you and Cam individually and go over the seals contract lien by line, you both refused. Another board member offered to have a special meeting just to talk about the Seals; you both indicated you would not come to the meeting. We knew at that time that your main goal was to shut the Seals down. How can you say you are not opposed to the Seals, when the swim team involve diving, when they would d need to use the facility for practice for 6 weeks and have one or two meets there. How do you support a swim team when you don’t support anything that they would need to do?
June 13th, 2010 at 9:56 pm
Mr. Reynolds. Aren’t the homeowners that participate in the Seals swim program regular homeowners too?
June 14th, 2010 at 7:11 am
Alan, as I said… neither Cam nor I first made any of this public. It showed up on scvtalk, then in Myers’ Signal column, so lets get the facts straight. My own family and many others have had to leave or could not use the main pool due to swim team activity… this is old news. The swim team contract was wrong when it says “non exclusive” use.
As far as sitting down with you, why would anyone want to do that? Besides, you never had any respect for my opinions. In fact, I have met with a number of swim team folks… all very nice people. In my opinion, you are about the worst spokes person the Seals could wish for.
Phil, yes of course those folks are regular homeowners… you know that I was referring to homeowners not affiliated with the swim team.
June 14th, 2010 at 8:22 am
Bill, I am not a representative of the swim team in any way. I have no affiliation with them in any way. My kids are all grown and do not swim on the Seals and they do not coach and I am not on their board, so stop saying that I am a spokesperson for them. As far as not wanting to sit and talk to me, you were on the board 2 weeks when you did not even want to sit and go over the contract; we had not even had one single meeting yet. Bill, respect of a board member has nothing to do with agreeing with them 100% of the time. Rick and I disagreed on many things while serving on the board together, in fact we voted differently on many issues, but we both respected each other and the opinions that each had, because we actually listened to the arguments and made the decisions based on the best for our HOA, we did not try to undermine the HOA. In fact I regard Rick as one of the best board members we have had, he was fair, intelligent and reasonable. Bill you never even attend the board member half day course that is offered by our management company so you can be informed of the legalities and duties of a board member. Every Summit board member has attended it except you.
The Stratford HOA ramped this up when they were caught videotaping the swim team kids, harassing swim team parent’s ands kids and making legal threats. That crossed the line and parents were upset, this is a 6 week swim team program that benefits our community and the kids and I speculate the press found this to be a great story of how a small group of egocentric people can try to rip their community apart.
Bill I do respect that you served our county, and have nothing personal against you. I have told you on many occasions that I truly believe that you are a nice person. You are just wrong in how you handled yourself on the board and the vendetta you have had against swim team and anyone on the board that supported the swim team.
June 14th, 2010 at 10:12 am
So Mr. Reynolds if the homeowners who swim in the summer swim league are so many that they fill up the main pool when they are swimming, can’t the other homeowners use the other two community pools? Isn’t that why there are more than one community pool?
How is that any different than when I go to play tennis with my tennis group, oftentimes there are eight or more tennis players already there and the courts are full. When that happens we move to the other set of tennis courts. Isn’t this the same thing?
June 14th, 2010 at 10:23 am
Phil, there are 3 other pools.
June 14th, 2010 at 10:52 am
Phil, when the swim team shows up and lay down their lane markers from one side to the other it takes away the ability for youngster to use the shallow end… that was my experience and what I’ve heard from others. Of course people can leave to use another recreational center; however there is only one with a bbq and besides that, our CC&R’s provide homeowner rights to enjoyment to all of our facilities. This was the issue I brought up in Jan ’09 and I was yelled at.
Playing tennis vs using a pool is two entirely different recreations. Tennis courts and the game of tennis is meant to use the whole court. If those tennis players went to the pool they would not use up the whole pool.
Alan, we can discuss this until the cows come home, but the real deal is that you had ample opportunity to meet with the Strats and you blew it, whichj is why out of frustration they issued a “Letter of Resolution” last August. They could have simply fiiled a lawsuit or issued a restraining order. But no. They chose to resolve matters absent the court. The board screwed around with this thing ever since. And then they violated their own written agreement.
The fact is, you have assumed “pointman” for the Seals… we see this in flyers, e-mail messages, etc. You really should fade away – you’re not helping the swim team.
You act like the Strats were sneaking around video recording… they were out in the open in broad daylight. It was not a secret what they were doing and you even spoke to them. No laws were broken.
Alan, in my opinion your misbehavior on the board is legendary so don’t even try to run down my contributions to our HOA. Had you conducted your job professionally we would not have all of these legal expenditures and so much angst in our community. It was major mistake having you be our President early last year instead of David Gauny.
June 14th, 2010 at 11:22 am
And by the way, only in the mind of Alan it’s true that when one questions swim team activity it’s considered a “vendetta”. Simply ridiculous!
June 14th, 2010 at 11:50 am
Alex, here is my conclusion… your opinions are just about as useless as mine are. Here’s a suggestion, when you read… try comprehending what you read rather than jumping to conclusions.
I’m going to say this one more time: I did not make this issue a public matter; I questioned the swim team contract in Jan ’09 due to conflicts with it and our governing documents and I subsequently voted no to approve that contract. I resigned last month in protest because of how our board handled the “Letter of Resolution”. I’m off the board and I have no say about any decisions.
Have a nice summer…
June 14th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
Bill, you are one rude guy, you never answered any of my questions you only keep giving the same stupid lines without any backup. At least Mike, Steve and Alan provided some information that was valuable.
Thank God you are off the board!!!!
June 14th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
Hey Alex, feel free to volunteer your time to becaome a board member. And by the way, what makes you think I have to answer your dopey questions. Throughtout this entire thread I have freely offered up my opinions and observations; sorry that you don’t like my position on these matters.
Have a nice summer…
June 14th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
Mr. Reynolds then why don’t you go use one of the other pools? If there are so many summit homeowners swimming in a swim league that you can’t comfortably use the shallow end, why don’t you go use one of the other pools?
I’ve been there when one lane swimmer is swimming laps in a lane. When that happens no one else can use the lane.
I’ve also been there when homeowners are barbequing who aren’t part of any swim league. When they are barbequeing no one else can use the barbeques. I don’t recall anyone complaining about that.
I really don’t understand why you get so upset that so many Summit homeowners are using the main pool in a summer swim league. It seems to me that’s the whole point of having a pool, so it gets used. Why would the Summit have more than one community pool if they didn’t figure that sometimes one of the pools would be full and people would need another pool to go to?
It really sounds like you just want to use the shallow end whenever you want and you don’t like sharing the pool with other homeowners.
June 14th, 2010 at 8:10 pm
Phil, per our CC&R’s I can use any of our rec ctrs when I want when they are open. Homeowner rights of enjoyment, get it?
I’m not upset… just pointing out the obvious. By the way, some of our rec ctrs weren’t available today for various reasons.
Have a nice summer…
June 15th, 2010 at 6:42 am
It sounds Mr. Reynolds like you confused being able to use any of the facilities with being able to use them all of them when you want. Sometimes you can’t use them because other people are using them. Sometimes you can’t use them because they are being repaired. I tried to use the clubhouse once but it was already reserved by another family so I couldn’t use it. That doesn’t violate the rules, that’s just the way life is. Not all facilities are available to you whenever you want. You have to share them with the other homeowners. You aren’t a king who gets to use what you want when you want.
It really sounds like your problem is you don’t like sharing the main pool with the summer swim league. Instead of griping about it why don’t you join the summer swim league? It sounds like they have a lot of fun.
June 15th, 2010 at 8:21 am
Phil, I don’t have any problems. Sharing our rec ctrs is exactly what they were intended for; having organized competitve activities is not what they were designed for. This is exactly why our CC&R’s & Pool Use Rules were written the way they were about 25 years ago. As one homeowner recently stated, it’s amazing how a small group of priviliged homeowners came to expect entitlements at the expense of everyone else.
Have a nice summer…
June 15th, 2010 at 9:05 am
Bill, you don’t even have a valid position, you are all over the place. You post some vague perception of reality and then when someone poses a question to you, you say you don’t have the answers to the dopey questions. There are lots of valid questions posed but you fail to answer them. I guess it much for easier for you to criticize and name call people then to actually engage them with real answers. The more stuff you post on here the more I realize you just don’t like swim team.
June 15th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
I still don’t understand Mr. Reynolds why you view Summit swimmers who use the main pool as they are apparently entitled to do as a “small group of privelaged homeowners” when you apparently don’t feel the same way about Summit tennis players who use the tennis courts or Summit neighbors who use the barbeque area.
June 15th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
Mr. Reynolds are you aware there are organized competitive tennis matches that take place on our tennis courts? Are you against those too?
June 15th, 2010 at 9:00 pm
Alex, I have stated my position enough times here and if you cannot comprehend my messages in writing I suggest that we meet and personally discuss whatever is troubling you. Surely you understand that I’m no longer on the board; I have no influence over anyone so I’m not getting your issues with me. Let me know when & where you want to meet…
Phil, if there are organized tennis teams and competition I am not aware of it. What are they neamed and who are they? How many teams – do they challenge other HOA’s? Please advise… Also, feel free to meet with me and Alex…
June 15th, 2010 at 11:02 pm
Phil, one more thing… did those tennis competitors obtain a contract from our HOA?
June 16th, 2010 at 5:58 am
Mr. Reynolds there are teams of tennis players that meet regularly in the mornings and play competitively. If you aren’t aware of them you can walk to any of the courts on a week morning and find them.
I assume the reason the swim team obtained a contract from the HOA was because the HOA insisted on it. Is that not the case? Would you feel better if they didn’t have a contract the same way the tennis players don’t?
So it sounds like its only the competition against other HOAs that bothers you? I thought you objected to the practices and other swim team activities. If you only object to the competition against other HOAs how often does that occur?
June 16th, 2010 at 7:01 am
Phil, you use the words “sounds like” which means that you assume many things. Do the tennis players book the courts in advance – NO! Are there any complaints of folks hogging the tennis courts – NO! Do they get preferential treatment – NO!
Like I said before, I’m willing to meet you face to face when you have enough courage to do so.
June 16th, 2010 at 7:24 am
Bill, I have no desire to meet you one on one in person; you can answer all the questions on this blog so everyone can understand where you care coming from. As far as I understand, the contract is the desire of the HOA and it protects the HOA, it’s been reviewed by attorneys and the insurance companies they have no problems with, it why do you? It provides the swim team with set hours and rules in which they can conduct the practices, it also makes them liable for damages and makes them have insurance and makes them have certified lifeguards. Those parents and swimmers are ALL homeowners, they can be there all day long if they want and take do anything they want and no one can tell them anything, they can actually practice and BBQ and the HOA has no say. Without a contract they would not need any insurance or be liable for any damage they are ALL homeowners. The contract actually protects all the homeowners.
June 16th, 2010 at 8:19 am
Hey Alex, if all you say is true why are you still posting here? You keep asking me questions; why does it matter what I think? Is this a case where you want to pound me into submission and agree that it’s okay to have an organized activity/contract that violates our governing documents? Sorry, I believe whar I believe. All of your “touchy – feely – nuanced” explanations are not winning me over. And seriously, does it really matter what I think?
June 16th, 2010 at 9:11 am
I guess I expected you to be honest about your statements and when you make a comment about something try to back it up with some facts. When you post a commentary have some basis for it, have some facts and expect people to challenge you.
You keep insisting that diving in a shallow pool during swim practice is dangerous; please cite one study from any source that gives that data.
You keep insisting that the CCR’s prohibit what the Seals are doing, please cite where in the CCR’s you see this prohibition. Steve has indicated that it is not in our CCR’s, I did look at them and he is right there is nothing there.
You keep saying you are not against the swim team, but how do you want them to operate if they can’t practice or can’t dive? Just be honest, if you are against the Seals swim team just say it, be honest.
You are right Bill you have become irrelevant.
June 16th, 2010 at 10:58 am
Hey Alex, I too would expect a little honesty from you. You won’t even post your name here. Check Article XII – Section 1 – Member’s Rights of Enjoyment.
As for the swim team, I’ve said it amny times… I love kids in sports – all of my kids and grandkids participate in a variety of sports activities. I’ll say again, the reason I voted no against the swim team contract in Jan ’09 (the only time I ever voted regarding that contract) is that in my opinion the contract violated our governing documents. I’ve already stated the specifics, which you have a hard time comprehending. I figured you wouldn’t meet in person. It’as difficult to debate feelings rule vs logic, especially when it impacts your entitlements.
I expect that you will once again twist everything I’ve stated here.
Have a nice a summer…
June 16th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
Mr. Reynolds you change your argument with every post. You say its because they fill up the facilities but since other facilities get filled up too that no longer seems to be your reason. Then you say its because they run competitive matches, but now that you know that tennis players do that your reason changes again. Now you say its because people complained but you’re the one complaining. You say you voted against the contract because it conflicted with the CC&Rs but Mr. Tannehill pointed out the swim team rules didn’t conflict with the CC&Rs but just other rules the board establishes and those were fixed according to him.
The entitlements in question here seem to be the entitlement you and a few other curmudgeons feel to enjoy the main pool in peace and quiet without all these kids and families bothering you.
Have you considered moving Mr. Reynolds? There are some very nice over 55 communities that don’t have kids or kids activities and old people like yourself can be left alone to talk about the past. It sounds like its time for you to make that move.
June 16th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Hey Phil (whoever you are), in case you haven’t figured out, Tannihill’s opinions cannot be trusted on this issue as he had/has a conflict of interest. He’s wrong on the CC&R’s – study up Dr. Phil. As for name calling, if it makes you feel better go for it. This is remindful of the swim team sympathizer gal who stood up at a board meeting last year and loudly told older homeowners they should move to retirement homes. In America, we still get to live where we choose and I have lived here longer than 99.5% of all homeowners so maybe you should consider moving, Dr. Phil, since it “sounds like” you are sooo unhappy.
Have a nice summer…
June 16th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Phil, not all of us old folks are like Bill, we actually enjoy being in the Summit and have no issues with the swim team and everyone enjoying this wonderful place .
June 16th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Bill, did you read the whole thing…. and understand it?
Section 1 – Members’ Right of Enjoyment. Every Member shall have a nonexclusive easement for use and enjoyment in and to the Community Facilities and such right shall be appurtenant to and
shall pass with the interest of every Residence, subject to all of the easements, covenants, conditions, restrictions and other
provisions of record or contained in this Declaration, including, without limitation, the following provisions.
(a) The right of the Association to limit the number of guests of Members and to limit the use of the Community Facilities(exclusive of Summit Park) by persons not in possession of a
Residence, but owning a portion of the interest in a Residence required for Membership.
(b) The right of the Association to establish reasonable rules and regulations pertaining to the use of the Community Facilities.
Not sure if you understand what that mean. A non-exclusive easement means that you, as the property owner, have the right to sell access to the easement to other parties. With a non-exclusive easement, only the people listed on the easement deed are currently allowed access. An easement that is “non-exclusive” simply is an easement that someone else may also use. It does not mean that a person can not have exclusive use if the board establishes that, see section (b)
Also please note that in the same section (b) it states that the association can establish rules and regulations
If the HOA attorney had no issues with this, what makes you think you know better? You have no clue what the heck you are talking about.
June 16th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Message to Alex: HOA lawyers support whatever their employers ask them to support; that’s how they get paid and stay on the payroll. Wise up ole dude.
Am I relevant again? Apparently so! Ha!
June 16th, 2010 at 7:48 pm
Mr. Reynolds it sounds like you are the one with a conflict of interest wanting to use the shallow end with your grand kids when other residents are swimming in the big pool You’re probably mad because your grandkids doen’t live in the summit and can’t swim on the swim team. With no disrespect it really sounds to me like you have lived here too long and should seriously consider one of those active adult communities where kids aren’t allowed. You could lounge in the shallow end all day and not be bothered. You really ought to consider it. Alex your posts are great and give me hope that a person can get older without turning into a mean sour cynical old fart like Bill
June 17th, 2010 at 7:10 am
Bill, again you keep making extraneous statements and when anyone challenges you, you ignore it and have no answers. The section in the CCR’s that you indicated has nothing to do with swim team using the facility, not sure if you understand what that section mean. A non-exclusive easement means that you, as the property owner, have the right to sell access to the easement to other parties. With a non-exclusive easement, only the people listed on the easement deed are currently allowed access. An easement that is “non-exclusive” is simply is an easement that someone else may also use. It does not mean that a person can not have exclusive use if the board establishes that. That is why we can’t just go in and use the clubhouse at any time we want, we own it so why can’t we just go in and hang out there.
Bill do you know what the Business Judgment Rule is? Well it protects Boards when they take advice from an expert, it is obvious you are not an attorney and far from an expert in these matters and the board needs to listen to their attorney and take their counsel and not take advice from you. I have dealt with many business attorneys in my company dealings over the last 40 plus years and trust me they are not yes men, I might have not liked their advice but I listened to them, they know the law, you don’t.
Phil, Thank you for your kind words.
June 17th, 2010 at 7:32 am
Dr Phil “Sounds Like”, why do you care to consider what I want? What I want is none of your business and I’m changing your name to Phil Grumpy. Ha!
Have a nice summer…
June 17th, 2010 at 8:37 am
Alex, so you’re saying that the Summit’s HOA lawyer should be trusted but the Statford’s HOA lawyer cannot be trusted, eh? Maybe you should re-read our governing documents…
Have a nice summer…
June 17th, 2010 at 9:08 am
By the way Dr. Phil, I spoke to a number of tennis players yesterday – there is no competitive tennis organization happening, nor do tennis players seek free usage of our clubhouse, nor is there a tennis team contract. Thought you should know…
Have a nice summer…
June 17th, 2010 at 10:23 am
Bill, you still avoid the obvious, how does that section of our CCR’s that you keep motioning have any relations to the swim team issue, you don’t even know that it means. Even when I quote from legal definitions and explain it to you, you just don’t even respond to it, it’s because your argument is shot to hell. As far as attorneys, the Strafford attorney is a hired gun, he is not the regular HOA attorney, and he has a lot to gain from making this a huge issue and dragging this on. The longer they drag it on the more money they make. The Summit Attorney has nothing to gain by giving bad or wrong advice to the HOA, he has to give them correct advice, and his reputation rides on it because he represents other HOA’s. Just because you don’t agree with him does not make him wrong.
Again where in the CCR’s does it prohibit swim team?
Again it’s obvious from your writings that you do not like swim team. Just be honest and say it. You can’t support them and not want them to use the pools to conduct practices and be able to dive, how does a swim team do that?
June 17th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Hey Alex – whoever you are – try obtaining an update from “Stratford Rob”. I understand that he was enlightened last night at their board meeting.
The Summit lawyer has a great deal ($$$’s) to gain by this dragging on. Wake up and smell the coffee ole dude.
Have a nice summer…
Signed,
Relevant Bill
June 17th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
again no answers Bill…try to answer the questions
I don’t know who strafford Bob is and don’t really care… I am asking you the questions.. you are the one that made the stupid irrelvant comments… so back them up big mouth
June 17th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
Hey Anonymous Alex, I don’t know who you are because you’re afraid to use your real name, but here’s the harsh reality for you in case you haven’t noticed – I do not report to you nor am I married to you, hence I do not have to answer your idiotic questions. If you have not figured out my position on these issues by now you never will. Meanwhile, feel free to study our governing documents at your liesure and mind your own business for a change. FYI: No one cares what you think. Can you comprehend this message, Alex, whoever you are?
Have a nice summer…
June 17th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
Mr. Reynolds I have friends who play competitive tennis on the tennis courts. I don’t know what you think they are doing but 40 love is a score, not the name of some soap opera.
It sounds Mr. Reynolds like you just see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. You seem to have a lot of pent up anger that you take out on innocent people. That’s really too bad and probably not very healthy. I hope you find some happiness in your life. It must be very distressing to be one of the most hated people in the Summit.
June 18th, 2010 at 6:12 am
Dr Phil, Dr Phil, Dr Phil… your brilliance is under whelming. Of course tennis players keep score and try to win! Tennis is a game! Here’s the deal, Dr. Phil… try to stay with me: there is no organized tennis team activity. There are individual players who like to play tennis. Tennis players do not expect free usage of our clubhouse nor do they have a “Tennis Team Contract” with our HOA. You gettin’ any of this, Dr. Phil?
It must be very distessing being one of the most dense people in the Summit. Ha!
June 18th, 2010 at 8:03 am
Bill, Bill, Billl… so what that the swim team has a contract that actually protects our HOA, not sure why that is a huge issue with you, why does that bother you so much, swim team contract and usage does not seem to bother too many other people as was shown in the last election when pro swim team board members were elected destroying your 2 anti swim team candidates by a 2 to 1 margin. Stop your whinning, move on buddy… as Phil said you are the most hated man in the Summit
June 18th, 2010 at 9:19 am
He is clueless when it comes to HOA affairs
He hates anyone having fun, especially kids swimming in a summer swim program
He is unable to answer simple questions
He resorts to name calling when he has no answers
He has no understanding of the Business Judgment Rule
He believes there is a conspiracy about everything
He is the most hated man in the Summit…..
He is Bill (get off my lawn kids) Reynolds
June 18th, 2010 at 10:20 am
Alex, once again you’ve proven how absolutely clueless you are. I am not whining; just responding to your idiot comments. Try making a useful statement sometime, if you are capable.
Have a nice summer…
June 18th, 2010 at 11:20 am
I’m trying to follow you Mr. Reynolds but it isn’t easy. So the tennis players meet on a regular basis, they form teams and play against each other and keep score. They include tennis players from other HOAs and play against them.
But it’s not organized.
Also you don’t have a problem with it because they don’t have a contract with the HOA requiring they have extra insurance to protect the HOA if one of them were to hurt himself playing tennis at one of these matches or requiring them to keep a court open for drop in players.
I’m sorry but that is a little hard to stay with.
Mr. Reynolds you keep bringing up the swim team uses the clubhouse for free.
What does the Stratford board pay to use the clubhouse? Do they use it for free? Since only Stratford residents can attend those meetings does that make them a minority seeking special privelages?
What should we do about them?
June 18th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Dr Phil, I realize that your mission here is to justify favortism and entitlements for your swim team. You believe it’s all warranted, fine… in America you are still entitled to your personal beliefs. I happen to disagree with you. Since I fought and spilled my blood fighting to protect our freedom, I get to express my opinions especially when my name is dragged through the mud.
So, keep ‘em comin’, Dr. Phil… what you say is meaningless… just as what I hvae to say here is meaningless. If there are any open issues between the two boards, I’m sure it will be worked out sooner or later.
Have a nice summer…
June 18th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
Phil excelltent points, again Bill just calls people names and does not answer any questions. Bill you have not responded to one single question I have posed you, if you are so well informed, answer them. You are the one that posted this to begin with and cannot back anything up.
June 18th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
Anonymous Alex and Dr. Phil, I did not first make this a public issue; I posted a letter here in response to Tim Myer’s Signal Column awhile back which provided my point of view. Tim failed to write a fair and balanced opinion piece so I responded here; Myers never spoke to me. Ever since that time, you and your ilk have ran my name into the ground and I have responded responsibly. I have stated my position on a variety of issues, but you guys can’t accept my point of view.
Just so you know, this is not about you or me; if any issues remain open it’s up to the two boards to resolve them. Meanwhile, take a valium and calm yourselves… life goes on.
Have a nice a summer…
June 18th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
Mr. Reynolds we all get to express our opinions as Americans. It sounds like you’ve run out of arguments and are now down to just calling people names and playing the I’m more of an American than you are card. I feel sorry for you to be reduced to that. I’m a tennis player so I’m just happy you’ve decided not to bother us. Most of us are older men like yourself so I imagine that’s why. We don’t have any kids that play so you don’t have kids that you seem to hate in our group. I also imagine you don’t like to hang out in the tennis courts like you do in the shallow end of the big pool so we don’t bother you which is why you don’t bother us.
I’m just glad you’re off the board and won’t be bothering the families that do use the big pool anymore.
Also Mr. Reynolds you never answered my question. Do your friends on the Stratford Board pay to use the clubhouse when they hold Stratford Board meetings that are only open to a privelaged few Summit Homeowners?
June 18th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
Dr. Phil, I do not know who you are as you’re too afraid to meet with me personally and you are too afraid to use your real name, so what makes you think I should answer your questions. I’m not calling people names and I’m not going after anyone for using our recreation centers… where do you come up with this garbage?
I’m beginning to think you are delusional…. come on get a grip!
I’ll say it again, if there are any open issues regarding the Seals, certainly the two boards will work it out sooner or later.
Have a nice summer…
June 19th, 2010 at 8:37 am
Mr. Reyholds why won’t you answer my question?
Does the Stratford Board pay to use the clubhouse when they hold meetings there?
June 19th, 2010 at 10:49 am
Dr. Phil, I will gladly answer your questions face to face. Got guts?
June 19th, 2010 at 11:39 am
Mr. Reynolds there’s only two reasons you won’t answer the question except in a private meeting. One would be to bully someone as you are trying to do here. The other would be to be able to come back and report false information. I prefer that we have our conversation here publicly where everyone can see what is being said.
I’d still like an answer to my question. Does the Stratford board pay to use the clubhouse when they hold meetings there?
June 19th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Dr. Phil, we all have our preferences and I do not need to bully anyone… that’s not my style. I rely on facts, not emotion.
Name the public place where you feel safe to meet and feel free to bring your friends…
Have a nice summer…
June 19th, 2010 at 9:41 pm
I think it is your style Mr. Reynolds.
Please answer the question
June 20th, 2010 at 7:46 am
Nope, not my style… name the place, bring your friends… don’t be afraid. Besides, I’m an old guy.
Have a nice summer…
June 20th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
so it is not your style to ansewr questions in public where everyone can see your answers? I think we all know whyt that is. Because we all know your buddies on the Stratford board don’t pay to use the Summit clubhouse for the Stratford board meetings. They get special privelages, but you are not agsint them getting them, are you?
Why not?
June 20th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Like I said before Dr. Phil, I don’t know who you are because you are too afraid to use your real name and obviously you are too afraid to have a real dialog about this stuff, so when you gather some courage, talk to me.
Have a nice summer…
June 20th, 2010 at 8:54 pm
I am, thanks Mr. Reynolds. We’re having some great tennis matches. I beat Bruce from the Valley HOA this week. My friends tell me the swim team had a great first meet and I here the board is celebrating the fact you are off the board. I see you just got blown up on scvtalk by a whole new group of people so more and more people are learning what a wack job you are. You were also pointed out to me by someone walking alone through the Summit. Very apt. So I am having a nice summer, thanks.
June 20th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
I too am having a great si=ummer and a wonderful Father’s Day with my children and grandchildren. Plus, I am celebrating being off the board and back to dealing with my personal hobbies… very exhilerating.
Some time when you gain enough intestinal fortitude, i.e., guts… let me know and maybe we could meet for coffee. I don’t mind interacting with dopey liberals such as yourself.
Have a nice summer and try to man up! Ha!
June 21st, 2010 at 6:44 am
Thanks again Mr Reynolds. It sounds like we celebrated the identical things yesterday. How funny is that?
I have no interest in meeting with you personally or privately. As you say you are off the board now and have no power. I have no interest in getting to know you personally or hearing about your personal hobbies.
June 21st, 2010 at 7:30 am
That’s cool, no problems here… you were the one pushing for answers but I know how stressful it would be revealing your identity. Ha!
June 21st, 2010 at 7:32 am
What hobbies Bill, harrasing little kids, telling them to get off your lawn, making sure no one has fun, making your wacky videos, answer the questions Bill….
June 21st, 2010 at 8:17 am
Hey Alex, go back to having children dive into shallow pools and claiiming fellow homeowners are child molestors! Bad move, my man – not smart! So man up and tell us who you really are!?
June 21st, 2010 at 8:44 am
Here you go again Bill, bringing stuff that has no relation to the discussion. I have no problems with kids in a supervised swim program diving into a shallow pool, the insurance company does not have a problem either why do you? I have no clue what you are talking about on the other issue.
June 21st, 2010 at 10:43 am
Hey Alex, when you make idiotic statements I simply respond in kind. By the way, who are you? What is your stake in these matters?
June 26th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
My fried who’s kids swim on the swim team said they had a meet today, and a lot of real men were there who manned up and volunteered to help over a hundred children have a great day.
But not Bill. He was too afraid to show his face there. Thank goodness.